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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5020
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:15:05 -
[1] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:WatGäó
WatGäó is brought to you by Jim Era.
Clearly an attempt to nerf ganking and thus reward stupidity.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:17:15 -
[2] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship. Until you see that ship is carrying some precious cargo and then it's an expanding ball of particles.
Solution: don't be stupid.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:19:27 -
[3] - Quote
zus wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship. What is the motive in their use
To see if you are carrying something valuable--i.e. are you worth ganking.
Now, before you say, "SEEEEEE!!! NERF IT!!!!"
Think about this...the developers put this there on purpose knowing full well how it would be used.
This is literally a feature, not a bug.
Your solution is to not be stupid.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:24:43 -
[4] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Drago Shouna wrote: But.....Players who play this game but fight against change are the problem. I'm not talking about the mechanics specifically, but the whole central concept needs to be examined and re-thought.
In the bolded section above you are, as I read it, asking to change the entire concept of the game. If you like a game but want to change the entire concept of the game, hence the game, then why play this game and not another game that has what you like?
Correct.
Basic Premise of Eve Online: You can be shot anywhere, anytime by anyone....who is willing to accept the consequences of such an action.
What this change is asking for is to limit the above.
The solution to "the problem" here is to not be stupid.
If you undock in a freighter with 8 billion ISK worth of goods....you are stupid. You are stupid because you have just put a "Gank Me!" sign on. If you reduced the value of your cargo you become much, much less interesting as a potential gank target. If you use the right kind of ship you might get away with it in certain circumstances (e.g. a JF jumping from a citadel to another citadel).
But the bottom line here is people are being stupid, other people are taking advantage of that, and the one's being stupid instead of accepting the consequences of their stupidity....want to change the fundamental nature of the game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:26:23 -
[5] - Quote
Galaxy Chicken wrote:I'm pretty sure a lot of people actually see us baddies as an undesirable element that the devs just haven't figured out how to remove.
It is more than that...they do not realize that this is a feature, not a bug. To them it is a bug because they do not fully understand the game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 18:31:45 -
[6] - Quote
Another option:
If you have small yet valuable cargo you cannot scan a blockade runner (not sure about a deep space transport). It is also one of the fastest ships in the game considering its class (an industrial hauler). Fit it properly and it is nearly impossible to gank in HS.
In fact, here let me help you Bads.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Hauling
Go there and read that page and the linked pages.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:42:25 -
[7] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote: Repeatedly telling the players if you don't like it feel free to go away doesn't alter the fact that the majority of players feel something is wrong with the game.
There is nothing wrong with the game, it is that these players do not understand the game.
This is a game of choices and consequences, risk vs. reward. If you make a bad choice it can lead to bad consequences. These consequences are typically imposed by other players.
A player who loads up his freighter with 10 billion ISK in goodies and undocks is making a bad choice and taking a considerable risk....and for very little reward.
Just as one does not cross a street wearing a blind fold, one should not undock in a freighter with a cargo running into the billions of ISK.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5021
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Posted - 2016.07.26 19:47:16 -
[8] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:"Prove its the majority, anecdotal mewling on the forums don't count."
Well the last time I checked or we were given the stats, whatever, the vast majority of players were in 0.5 to 1.0 space, HS.
I can only presume as all these complaints and threads are started by players in said space that the majority are pissed off with certain playstyles, whether it's wardecs or plain ganking.
CCP will probably keep ignoring it all to a large extent, personally I'd much rather have more players to sell my stuff to rather than less and less.
I am in a NS alliance.
I have had anywhere from 2 to all 6 of my alts in HS.
That there are pilots in HS, does not tell you much about the views of those players regarding the nature of the game.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5022
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Posted - 2016.07.27 07:39:25 -
[9] - Quote
Knitram Relik wrote:No. Double wrap yer stuffs if you don't want people to know what you've got.
And grow a pair, this is Eve.
Yes, I too liked to be ganked. Nowadays, people will gank you just to be damn sure that double wrapped cargo is not valuable.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5022
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nomad Willis wrote:Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window"
You can double wrap your cargo which means it cannot be scanned. However, people might gank you suspecting such cargo is valuable. Just as people will alpha blockade runners (which cannot be cargo scanned) on the off chance they too are carrying something valuable.
You do have a way of seeing who is "peeking in your window" you must target a ship to use scanners (i.e. yellow box them). The only way around this is if they fit a passive locking module. If you are not paying attention to who is yellow boxing you as you fly...that is your problem. Fix it. Pay attention.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5023
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:48:32 -
[11] - Quote
Nomad Willis wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Nomad Willis wrote:Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window" There is a scanning effect in space if the scanner has a passive targeting array fitted to avoid yellow box. The number of people for whom this item is a mystery is upsetting. I recommend newbros to fit passive targeting and ship scanner to look at people's fits, to get ideas or see mods they might never have thought of. Cargo scanners also let them know just how stupidly valuable some of those ships going past really are. It's impossible to completely hide that you are scanning ships, so that's out, too. Good to know, but undocking from trade hubs tends to be a visual crap show. Half the time there are 10 other ships all dog piled while everyone tries to warp off. The scanner is god knows where in relation to your undock postion. How would you know, even if you did see it, that it was you they were targeting. Its not like the eye molest you for very long... quick look and on to the next guy. My point is mostly around tools for both sides. Information and a bit of luck is all that a target really has.
You have the tools...look at your overview to see who is scanning you. Adjust your overview so you can see as many ships as possible and scroll up and down. I have spotted people scanning me before, it is not that hard. I've even convo'd them and ask if they like what they saw. Usually they do, but there isn't enough of it to make a gank worthwhile. Especially as I use a JF now, and often jump out of the trade hub to who knows where from their perspective.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5023
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:49:56 -
[12] - Quote
zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it
Ok, how about it gives you a suspect timer so people can shoot you if you use it.
You should not be allowed to shield yourself from the consequences of being imprudent.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5023
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:55:21 -
[13] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ummmm wise guy. Freighters don't have fitting- where exactly would we put those Scan Suppressors, and secondly ... is it wise to fit something that'll make you primary while at the same time gimping your tank?
Good point. Fit such a module and people might gank you figuring you got something valuable you are hiding.
Really....think these things through people.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:24:34 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Yup, you can rest assured that 100% of gankers that scan you will then fire. Its always good to have things predictable. Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
Yup, which is why if you use a blockade runner you use insta-undock bookmarks, insta-docking bookmarks, and you should be good with warp and cloak activation as well. Even still you might still get popped if you are unlucky.
So, if you could fit a module to a freighter that made it impossible to scan, my guess is you'd still be putting a "Gank Me" sign on your ship.
You can try using insta-undock bookmarks in a freighter, but you might still get locked and scanned. Still it could help. Also try messing up their plans. Undock, warp off, and along your route dock up in a 0.9 system. Go AFK for a random period of time. Go for a walk, stretch, get some food, a bio, a shower, whatever. The longer you take the more likely they'll be to find another target in the mean time.
Also, for the love of God Stop. Filling. Your. Freighter. With. 8 billion ISK. Worth. Of. Stuff.
Yes, it might mean 8-10 trips to move all that stuff, but if you have 800 million in your hold vs. 8 billion...they are far less likely to gank you over 800 million (of which about 400 million is expected to drop).
Also, look at the cargo, if it is some small and expensive modules that are causing the problem and then lots of other low value stuff...try this.
1. Undock in your freighter. 2. Warp to another less used station in system. 3. Dock up. 4. Put the high end stuff in your blockade runner. 5. Undock. 6. Warp to an insta-undock book mark while activating your cloak. 7. Proceed to destination in the blockade runner. 8. As you warp off of every gate, be sure to activate your cloak ASAP. (If necessary practice this.) 9. Hop in a shuttle or ceptor, go back to the trade hub. 10. Get in your freighter and transport the low value bulky stuff.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:26:33 -
[15] - Quote
Dammit; double post.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:30:38 -
[16] - Quote
zus wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Yup, you can rest assured that 100% of gankers that scan you will then fire. Its always good to have things predictable. Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
No, he is correct. I lost a viator that way once. I foolishly warped to zero to Jita 4-4 vs. a bookmark. Got blapped as I landed 2,000m or so away from the station.
I then looked the guy up on zkillboard and he had quite a history of blapping blockade runners. Yes, he looses his ship, but it does indeed happen.
Similarly, there are people who have complained about being ganked while moving a double wrapped cargo. The gankers are playing a numbers game in that case. So, all they have to do is hit enough such freighters and get that one big pay off to cover all the failures and then some.
See, most people are not going to bother double wrapping 50 million units of tritanium. But if they have 6 trillion ISK worth of goodies...then they might double wrap thinking ganking groups will not gank what they can't see. But as we can see...it might very well be worth it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 20:13:41 -
[17] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
No wonder, folks can't be bothered to do even basic maths anymore when loading their paper thin space trucks with all their belongings, completely ignoring EVEs rule no 1: You simply don't fly what you don't want to lose. Period.
This should be on a message for every new account that does not disappear until the person creating that account types it into a field 10 times.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 20:18:54 -
[18] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Come to think of it, why not at least have a suspect flag for people scanning. After all, if somebody is going around a parking lot looking into cars, would that behavior not be "suspect"?
I know I known "Hurf blurf this is not real life hurf blurf not another nerf".
These days I don't get wrapped up in "don't they want PVP?" They don't. Heck even RvB turned out to be a kill-farming scam.
Not to the point where you can shoot them....well...okay, not normally.
Looking in a car window is NOT illegal, to continue with your analogy. Sure a cop might come by and ask what you are doing and harass you, but unless you are trespassing it is not illegal. I could be walking to my car and stopping an looking in the window of every car on the way.
As for them not wanting PvP...yeah, that is part of the problem. Some people are playing this game not realizing one of its core elements.
You can shoot anyone, anywhere, at anytime so long as you accept the consequences.
If you do not understand this part of the game....you are going to be in for a rude surprise when somebody decides to accept the consequences and shoot you....maybe even destroy your ship and take whatever drops.
Everything working as intended.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5031
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Posted - 2016.07.28 05:58:04 -
[19] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Come to think of it, why not at least have a suspect flag for people scanning. After all, if somebody is going around a parking lot looking into cars, would that behavior not be "suspect"?
I know I known "Hurf blurf this is not real life hurf blurf not another nerf".
These days I don't get wrapped up in "don't they want PVP?" They don't. Heck even RvB turned out to be a kill-farming scam. I agree. Anyone who looks into cars in parking lots in New Eden should gain a suspect flag. As for ship scanning though, no. Suspect flag is not needed. But what about HTFU? My, how the tune changes. I bet if scanning ships did result in s suspect flag, you'd call that a nerf to ganking. But but I though you people always win every engagement? I thought you people are the apex feeeders of Eve, the super duper uber leet undefeatable pilots here to break people out of their RL habits of not being paranoid enough about everything? Your type will never change, and it's the presence of people like you in this game, or this game itself (apparently) that is not going to be missed.
Yes it would be a nerf to ganking for profit or at least breaking even. Why are you being deliberately obtuse?
Here is an idea don't post like a douche.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5034
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Posted - 2016.07.28 08:26:43 -
[20] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cory Za wrote:
Why not: just have a pop up message that advises the player.
"Cargo Scanned"
This way it keeps with the danger and fun. Players and concord can scan and you never know who. You have a choice then to get the heart pumping or not.
You can already see when someone is scanning you.
But, but, but....that takes effort. You know, looking at your overview and seeing who is doing what....
That is simply outrageous! I demand CCP give me something for zero effort!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5034
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Posted - 2016.07.28 08:28:42 -
[21] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Not just lying, but slander. This is an extraordinary accusation to make of both the player and CCP, so some extraordinary evidence is going to be required before it's anything more than bullshit. I prefer to think of it more as a 'conspiracy loon' than libel. I don't think Drac means to be libellous, he's just a bit of a nutter.
Now you did it. Now Drac will use his mental powers to tell us all what you are thinking. That you are in fact a transgendered woman and that you live in Cleveland...I'm not sure which is worse.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5035
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:30:16 -
[22] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:The Groundskeeper wrote:He said I was well-respected I'm changing sides I'm with you now Dracvlad of Taishi Combine, proud members of Second-Dawn. Let's take down those filthy gankers with their insistence on shooting things. Have you considered a career in Pandemic Legion? I am not going to reply to the others, they are hot air. Of course you are well respected in the game, you play to win and you do and you did with this. My objective here was not to directly go after you, but to neuter the whining of yet another nerf to ganking, the balance that Fozzie put in for Freighter structure EHP after the wreck EHP change in no way balanced against what AG was doing and which was destroyed by that change. That was my point, also the change was removing an offensive act to adding EHP on the defensive side, thanks guys for the great content. There was so much wrong with that.
Really not go after him?
Quote:CCP were grossly incompetent and were manipulated by Endie for his own reasons. The man is a disgrace, can't win in space so he gets the rules changed.
Hmmm...somebody sure did flip-flop.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5036
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Posted - 2016.07.28 16:49:19 -
[23] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:The Groundskeeper wrote: It was also, in retrospect, a sensible change in the sphere of suicide ganking: nothing in eve should have no counter
Oh the irony...
But getting a suspect timer is not really a counter. A counter is something that players should be able to do.
If you want a module that when activate counters scanning, I suppose that might not be too bad. But here is the thing, people will just backwards induct to a strategy of ganking ships using such a module. After all, if you are using it you must not want people to see what you are carrying...and that will likely be highly correlated with ISK value.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5036
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Posted - 2016.07.28 18:23:10 -
[24] - Quote
Lex Gabinia wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So like bumping, ganking needs another no-consequence mechanic.
Check.
I'm sorry, I did not realize that scanners were used exclusively for ganking. /sarcasm You're kind of making my point. Scanners are not used exclusively for ganking so it makes no sense to be flagged suspect for their use. Wait I have an idea, let's have a popup that asks the player each time they activate the module if this is for ganking purposes. That way we can know their intentions and flag them or not accordingly.
I have used them on CODE. bumping ships. Great way to get an idea of what it would take to gank the bumping ship.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5036
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Posted - 2016.07.28 18:27:19 -
[25] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:baltec1 wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:nah
Just make it so the person scanned has a warning show up on his screen identifying who scanned him. Already have that. Where?
Your overview. To use a scanner you have to yellow box the target unless you are using a passive targeting array.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5036
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Posted - 2016.07.28 19:17:00 -
[26] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
You got that pushed up to a level you knew that the small hisec entities and solo players could not do, it needs a Tornado with a perfect hit
So use one. There you go, you had it moved to that level to defend the wreck which you could not do yourself and your answer is go use one, typical baltec1. The simple fact is that as soon as AG started shooting the wrecks you pushed to have it changed because you are too useless to defend the wreck against people you said were fail. Who is tthe failure, the people who whined to get the rules changed to cover their own weakness which they projected on others.
That is some mighty fine post hoc ergo propter hoc you got there.
Sorry, all you got is the timing. Could be your story is legit, but it also could be Bravo Sierra.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5037
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Posted - 2016.07.28 20:04:47 -
[27] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Lex Gabinia wrote:What does any of this have to do with the idea of getting a suspect flag for using scanners?
Nothing of course, but there must be messages pushed. Talk is the only thing AG can do. So messages, even completely rubbish, off topic ones, are on the table to be splurged in any thread. Nothing shall deny the conspiracy. Yeah but Gankers on the CSM push CCP to change the rules when someone does something in game that starts to work against their easy lifestyle...
So...tell us how the Illuminati are involved, or is it the Reptillians?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5039
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Posted - 2016.07.29 07:08:55 -
[28] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Come to think of it, why not at least have a suspect flag for people scanning. After all, if somebody is going around a parking lot looking into cars, would that behavior not be "suspect"?
I know I known "Hurf blurf this is not real life hurf blurf not another nerf".
These days I don't get wrapped up in "don't they want PVP?" They don't. Heck even RvB turned out to be a kill-farming scam. I agree. Anyone who looks into cars in parking lots in New Eden should gain a suspect flag. As for ship scanning though, no. Suspect flag is not needed. But what about HTFU? My, how the tune changes. I bet if scanning ships did result in s suspect flag, you'd call that a nerf to ganking. But but I though you people always win every engagement? I thought you people are the apex feeeders of Eve, the super duper uber leet undefeatable pilots here to break people out of their RL habits of not being paranoid enough about everything? Your type will never change, and it's the presence of people like you in this game, or this game itself (apparently) that is not going to be missed. Why would that change ganking? It's just not a mechanic that's needed. If having an opinion is somehow an affront to the health of this game or something, then we are all screwed. How does having a view that no suspect flag is needed suddenly make me someone that won't be missed. I don't personally think any of us will be missed when we leave. The game will go on regardless. So why is my type, which can only be someone that has an opinion, such a bad thing for the game. Don't you have opinions too? I did some further research on the wreck EHP change which we discussed on a locked thread, it was confirmed to me that Endie did push for it because AG was ganking wrecks. This is actually a case where the Gankers got the rules changed to block an AG strategy. A number of other CSM null sec players also pushed for it, but Endie pushed for it because it benefited ganking and negated the strategy that AG was starting to do more and more. So I totally stand by my statement that the wreck EHP was changed to benefit gankers. EDIT: It gets even more interesting, the EHP buff to freighters was decided after that when CCP realised that the wreck EHP buff was a direct benefit to gankers, CCP Fozzie going as far as saying ,"like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance" Personally I would prefer that they had not changed the wreck EHP and left the freighter tank as was so we could shoot the wrecks and prevent the gankers from gathering the loot. I would state that was one hell of a buff to ganking, or should I say loot scooping EDIT2: Just to make it even more stark, the player you are replying to above was shooting wrecks, just so you know, so what he was doing was directly removed by CCP at the request of a CSM member whose corp was the main beneficiary of ganking in hisec. This stinks big time, it really does stink bad.
It was NOT removed, it was made more difficult. Instead of a freighter wreck having the ehp as a frigate wreck the larger wrecks were given more ehp.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5039
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Posted - 2016.07.29 07:13:20 -
[29] - Quote
Cory Za wrote:
Why not: just have a pop up message that advises the player.
"Cargo Scanned"
This way it keeps with the danger and fun. Players and concord can scan and you never know who. You have a choice then to get the heart pumping or not.
Why not just pay attention and be prudent? Or next time you want to move your freighter should I log on to hold your hand?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5040
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Posted - 2016.07.29 19:01:04 -
[30] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Ironically I think CCP could rebalance this fairly easily, if they were interested in doing so - and my solution is quite counter-intuitive:
What they need to do to re-balance this equation is to simply alter the CONCORD mechanics so that there is a *fixed* delay in their deployment, based solely on the security status of the system. And make them wait for this predefined period *even if they are already on grid*.
This would give the anti-gankers a fair chance at ganking the wreck - though they would still be at a slight disadvantage due to gate guns, it wouldn't be unreasonable.
It would also have the side-effect of saving mining ship gankers the trouble of pulling concord back out of the belt between ganks - probably saving a few of their pods in the process.
In terms of game lore, they could make CONCORD warp *back out* after enforcing their punishment - which would additionally save server resources not having hundreds of them orbitting random gates anyway.
Honestly I think this would be a win-win for everybody. Am I missing anything? The issue is that we have on one side the Goon and PL supported Gankers, massive wealth, huge number of accounts ability to move about pick their targets, running in fast to warp ships and able to warp in and blap. Against solo or at most two account players who are mostly not very wealthy who have an alt or two that they were applying to help for no payment at all. The issue is that while the gankers will hit freighters and loot scoop if they win, earning a huge amount of ISK, the AG will earn 0 as you pointed out. Also the numbers of AG is fairly low, there is now way we can get 10 to 15 people in toons that are acceptable to go to -10 to gank a single wreck, nor can they afford the Tornado scenario. The wreck was placed above their ability to gank in terms of skills and ships and numbers. The Goon here keeps saying unwilling to gank the wreck but he knows full well what the AG is. I have one anti-ganking gank toon and I just do not have the ability to put him in a Tornado and nor do I have the ability to fund that Tornado to the level that the gankers do. While your suggestion is good, we are talking about structural issues, we have the professional level highly funded hisec alliances in a very organised way making vast amounts of ISK against a small group of militia type people who largely disorganised. CCP just handed total victory to them with this change. And what gets me is that not a single one of the AG toons doing this got anywhere near -10, they stopped it that quickly..., initially I assumed it was fear over the market collapsing if the stuff was just destroyed, but it turned out to be worse, the lazyness of gankers.
And where have I heard this story before. Oh yeah, when I suggested that AG gank the bumping ship. This was precisely the reaction. "What? We shouldn't have to do that, CCP should solve this problem for us."
As for the lack of organization....so what? CODE. and ganking groups have over come that issue. Maybe you should focus on fixing that vs. trying to use it as an excuse.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5045
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Posted - 2016.07.30 19:25:11 -
[31] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I am after game balance dimwit....
Says the guy who was just whining about being insulted. You really are a hypocritical liar aren't you.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5046
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Posted - 2016.07.30 19:27:05 -
[32] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
I am after game balance dimwit, if that wreck EHP had been talked about with AG players we would have told CCP it would kill it stone dead for reasons I have explained here and on other threads.
And those reasons are that AG are not willing to put serious effort into or ISK at risk in pursuing their objectives whereas those who gank do.
Yup, very convincing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5048
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Posted - 2016.07.30 20:38:52 -
[33] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
I am after game balance dimwit, if that wreck EHP had been talked about with AG players we would have told CCP it would kill it stone dead for reasons I have explained here and on other threads.
And those reasons are that AG are not willing to put serious effort into or ISK at risk in pursuing their objectives whereas those who gank do. Yup, very convincing. ISK, not using their mains due to them needing them to operate in hisec, lack of appertite to gank, lack of SP for those alts, its all there. You are not stooping to dimwit level are you?
No, I'm pointing out that the AG side does not want to put in the level of effort and risk significant amounts of ISK unlike the other side of the issue. Gankers have put together groups, coms, and pre-position assets, and so forth to engage in ganking. They have basically put lots of effort and ISK into obtaining their objective.
Why is it at all unreasonable to think AG should not have to put forth some degree of effort as well. You don't build up an AG corp or alliance. Do you have shared voice comms? Do you pre-position assets so people can go to the system where the gank is going to happen and get what they need there? Do you use any kind of fleet doctrine? Have you thought about spawning CONCORD on those cheap throw away alts you guys created for ganking wrecks?
I got into one of the anti-bumping threads and I pointed out that there is not much tank on those machs and that they are damn expensive. Gank those routinely and....well that would be a severe crimp in the ganking process, at least till they found a work around. The response was laughable. It was basically that they should not have to incur a criminal flag, lose sec status, and their ship to stop a ship from bumping another ship...CCP should do all that.
So I find the notion that AG would gank wrecks laughable. Sure they'll do it when it is super cheap and they can do it on a toss away alt. But as soon as it requires a bit more effort/ISK and it is "NOPE!"
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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